Season 2017 Results, ongoing predictions

2

Comments

  • HockeyTragic
    HockeyTragic
    Melbourne edited April 2017

    @stevep said:

    Definitely. I'm a Camberwell supported and no doubt a bit biased so take the following with a grain of salt. Good to have more discussion here though.
    ...
    We did have Copey and Philpott out from the previous match but MCC are a good team and they employed clever tactics against us - flooding the circle in defence but also playing fast high forwards which limited our press and disrupted our setup and movement around the back.

    Camberwell got on top in the second half with multiple short corners and had a couple of disallowed goals but MCC could have pinched the game with their own short corner after time which went in but too high from a hit.

    A draw was a fair result in the end.

    That seems a bit too rational for a partisan supporter! Whoever thinks MCC are going to be easy beats will have something coming. That description sounds like a classic MCC match over the last few years, never easy ones to win.

  • HockeyTragic
    HockeyTragic
    Melbourne

    @Jemma said:

    What is happening at Southern. An Ephraum and all their other strong kids out and they still can get a draw with Hawthorn. Or is Hawthorn just not as strong.
    And Burra goes down by 2 to Altona.

    I saw the Altona goal via instagram - looked like a close game to say the least.

  • hvmember
    hvmember
    >Most people were right on for the PL results, except for this and Burra.

    Agreed. Tbh, I'm more shocked at Hawthorn result. I predicted that Burra would win however I know that playing away at Altona can be an annoyingly tough task for many teams. Maybe it didn't just have to do with that old surface.

    Hawthorn should be performing better than this - regardless of SUHC's form, Hawthorn have the competitive edge and experience that should allow them to grind out a win against an opposition they have consistently proven to be stronger than, even if the game is closer than they'd like. I'm not involved in either of these clubs though. Maybe the power balance here really has shifted and I'm basing what I'm saying on outdated info. But I didn't think I'd be *that* outdated...
  • HockeyTragic
    HockeyTragic
    Melbourne edited May 2017

    MPL ladder after 5 rounds (seriously what is up with round 3 being game 6):

    # Team P W L D Points
    1 Camberwell 5 4 0 1 13
    2 Powerhouse/St Kilda 5 4 1 0 12
    3 Altona 5 4 1 0 12
    4 Waverley 5 3 1 1 10
    5 Hawthorn 5 3 1 1 10
    6 Southern United 5 3 1 1 10
    7 Doncaster 4 3 1 0 9
    8 Greensborough 4 2 1 1 7
    9 MUHC 5 2 3 0 6
    10 MCC 4 1 2 1 4
    11 Footscray 3 1 2 0 3
    12 Mentone 5 1 4 0 3
    13 Yarra Valley 3 0 3 0 0
    14 Essendon Hockey 5 0 5 0 0
    15 TEM 5 0 5 0 0

    A few interesting things so far.

    Nothing too surprising down the bottom end with the new teams struggling, but also Essendon off to a rough start. It's already looking like it will be very even through the top 8 with potentially all teams between 10-13 points if Doncaster and Burra win their game in hand. That already puts a 4 point gap on MUHC who play Powerhouse this week, while MCC play Burra.

    Could we see a similar situation to the last couple of years in the AFL where even though it feels super early in the season the top 8 is pretty much set?

  • noblet
    noblet

    7 rounds in what are peoples thoughts on the competition? Any real standouts? Are essendon really that bad?

  • simmo
    simmo
    Essendon were all soul foccussed on certain players they forgot about the talent coming threw there juniors. Look back on all the talent they lost the reece brothers Kyle gildea oscar wookey plus more hence why they are not a competetive club
  • HV_is_great
    HV_is_great

    @simmo said:
    Essendon were all soul foccussed on certain players they forgot about the talent coming threw there juniors. Look back on all the talent they lost the reece brothers Kyle gildea oscar wookey plus more hence why they are not a competetive club

    For sure they have lost a lot of talented players, but the past few years their juniors have absolutely killed the shield comps. Looking at their current results, they have been quite competitive other than two results (8-1 first round, 5-1 losses), but then all other losses are 1 goal losses +(only one 2 goal loss), and managed a win over Altona. I think they are doing alright, and will continue to improve.

    Not much talk about PL here though. Forums kinda dead.

    Yarra managed to win against Waverley last night and have been decently competitive against some quality sides. I haven't watched them, are they looking good considering they only just came up?

  • Put_her_in_H
    Put_her_in_H

    I think Yarra are playing 11 behind the ball and hoping to strike on the rebound. Hard to break down. Great that they beat Waverley, but 7 goals scored all year (3 of which were last night) isn't a great return

  • simmo
    simmo
    They got imports which gave them depth. I'm talking about ess before import they hadn't won a game
  • hvmember
    hvmember
    Yarra without doubt have been parking the bus however after seeing them play I was more impressed than I thought I would be. Imports can give you a shot at a good game but on their own they won't be enough to slice through the very best teams, and they certainly won't make you a serious finals contender.
  • HockeyTragic
    HockeyTragic
    Melbourne

    What about the top end?

    Currently Camberwell clear on top but having played an extra game, and then Greensborough, Altona and Waverley following close behind.

    It will make for an interesting final series, you would think with the likes of Kleinschmidt, Hammond, Arunasalam coming back into the top teams.

    Has anyone seen enough to have a clear favourite?

  • simmo
    simmo
    Yeah Brunswick for the flag
  • Stickball
    Stickball
    edited June 2017

    Burra for the big one - especially if they have Casey and JAP when it counts
    But if Camberwell have both Pottsy and AK come finals then who knows...

  • hvmember
    hvmember

    I could definitely see a Burra Camberwell final this year. I'm not sure any of our other competitive teams have what it takes to go all the way in a desperate finals series. Altona made finals a couple years ago, and despite the optimism were defeated comprehensively by what looked to me just an unmatched level of finals hunger, it appeared to take them by surprise. If Doncaster can hold on they might get up there, made it from fourth in 2013 and also will likely have Aranusalam back. Waverley haven't been in it for a few years now, I have questions over whether they will be able to take the finals heat with a team that haven't experienced PL finals - I could be wrong here though. Furthermore, I highly doubt anyone outside the four will be able to win the flag, the gap is too large, HV will likely just be wasting time with their top eight structure this year. Back to Burra and Camberwell, both teams are doing great in the home and away season even with their Australian outs. Watching the two play each other earlier this season was nothing but class. A nil all draw but still one of the best quality matches I've seen in recent times. Both teams giving it everything in a tight, top quality match that had everyone on the edge of their seat. I've seen worse international matches before. To see the two battle it out in the final would be very exciting.

  • HockeyTragic
    HockeyTragic
    Melbourne

    @hvmember said:
    I could definitely see a Burra Camberwell final this year. I'm not sure any of our other competitive teams have what it takes to go all the way in a desperate finals series. Altona made finals a couple years ago, and despite the optimism were defeated comprehensively by what looked to me just an unmatched level of finals hunger, it appeared to take them by surprise. If Doncaster can hold on they might get up there, made it from fourth in 2013 and also will likely have Aranusalam back. Waverley haven't been in it for a few years now, I have questions over whether they will be able to take the finals heat with a team that haven't experienced PL finals - I could be wrong here though. Furthermore, I highly doubt anyone outside the four will be able to win the flag, the gap is too large, HV will likely just be wasting time with their top eight structure this year. Back to Burra and Camberwell, both teams are doing great in the home and away season even with their Australian outs. Watching the two play each other earlier this season was nothing but class. A nil all draw but still one of the best quality matches I've seen in recent times. Both teams giving it everything in a tight, top quality match that had everyone on the edge of their seat. I've seen worse international matches before. To see the two battle it out in the final would be very exciting.

    Great comment, I think you're pretty spot on, every Camberwell v Burra game I have seen it is always top quality. The only other smokey you haven't mentioned could be Powerhouse. At the moment they are struggling to even make the top 8 but if they can get it together and then get A. Seccull flicking well anything could happen - unless Waseem was just too important for them. Definitely a huge out when you look at their position compared to Southern this year.

  • HockeyTragic
    HockeyTragic
    Melbourne

    @Stickball said:
    Burra for the big one - especially if they have Casey and JAP when it counts
    But if Camberwell have both Pottsy and AK come finals then who knows...

    Do you reckon they'll be back for the whole thing if it's a 4-week finals series? Or just for the big one and maybe a prelim? You'd back both teams to make the prelim even without them, but it could make it interesting!

  • Stickball
    Stickball

    Unsure - to be honest dunno enough about their Aus and Perth comp commitments.
    My understanding though is that Kiz and AK are in the same perth team and they don't seem finals bound, so could see an earlier return than those at more successful clubs?
    Are there any rules surrounding them returning for only part of the finals campaign? Or are they exempt from them? Would be pretty outrageous if they played a full season with a perth team, maybe including finals, then at the end of that just flew back for the GF in Vic. Would take the piss a bit

  • scholesy18
    scholesy18
    Altona

    @Stickball said:
    Unsure - to be honest dunno enough about their Aus and Perth comp commitments.
    My understanding though is that Kiz and AK are in the same perth team and they don't seem finals bound, so could see an earlier return than those at more successful clubs?
    Are there any rules surrounding them returning for only part of the finals campaign? Or are they exempt from them? Would be pretty outrageous if they played a full season with a perth team, maybe including finals, then at the end of that just flew back for the GF in Vic. Would take the piss a bit

    Has been the rules for years. If Victorian players are forced to relocate to Perth for AIS Scholarships then they are eligible to play Premier League finals.

    It's the best comp in the state, I've got no problems with the best Victorian players being available.

  • HockeyTragic
    HockeyTragic
    Melbourne edited June 2017

    @Stickball said:
    Unsure - to be honest dunno enough about their Aus and Perth comp commitments.
    My understanding though is that Kiz and AK are in the same perth team and they don't seem finals bound, so could see an earlier return than those at more successful clubs?
    Are there any rules surrounding them returning for only part of the finals campaign? Or are they exempt from them? Would be pretty outrageous if they played a full season with a perth team, maybe including finals, then at the end of that just flew back for the GF in Vic. Would take the piss a bit

    Yeah as @Scholesy18 mentioned anyone playing in the AIS is exempt and allowed to come back for whatever games they want - finals or not - so long as it is their home club. It's an interesting one as some players slot straight back in and make the team a stronger line-up while others seem to have an unsettling effect and are almost detrimental to the team.

    I've always loved seeing the best come back for the finals, Burra a few years back throwing Ian Smyth up to centre forward and seeing him throw himself all over the place, same with Doerner at Waverley playing up front. In more recent years Ciriello and Rusty coming back for Doncaster, Simpson for Burra, great to watch.

  • moth2skeeta
    moth2skeeta
    Terrific fun first half. Who is the best player in the comp at present ? What club has surprised ?
  • hvmember
    hvmember

    Two weeks into finals, would love to hear thoughts. Some surprises to me:

    Burra out in straight sets. I really thought they'd at least make the preliminary final, but Doncaster and Powerhouse were both too much for them. Powerhouse have seemed to have it over Burra in recent years, they seem to be a hard match up for them. Must be concerning for Burra - an ageing team with what I've heard has relatively little depth and junior progression into elite sides.

    Southern stayed alive longer than I thought they would. Consider the Altona game as part of them staying alive - they did right to the end. It looked like they were going to win that match. I didn't think they'd make it through round one. Maybe I didn't give them enough credit, was certainly a valiant shot at finals from the eighth seed.

    Speaking of Altona, these guys are determined. Had a great crack at Camberwell and then dug deep when they needed to at the very end against Southern to avoid elimination - classic finals hockey. Will likely be a great game between them and Doncaster this week.

    Powerhouse looking strong so far, looked too good for Burra. But while they might have the psychological edge over Burra, Camberwell seem to have that edge over Powerhouse. Not an easy match for either side this weekend.

  • hockeyfan
    hockeyfan
    Did anyone give a reasoning on why Scanlan was allowed back onto the pitch during a short corner? Clearly cost southern the game. Questions must be asked of the tech bench.
  • Grizzly
    Grizzly

    @hockeyfan said:
    Did anyone give a reasoning on why Scanlan was allowed back onto the pitch during a short corner? Clearly cost southern the game. Questions must be asked of the tech bench.

    It's not complex.

    He was carded. Must go off for two minutes. After the two minutes expires he is allowed back on. It's not a substitute scenario.

  • hockeyfan
    hockeyfan
    I thought only a goalkeeper was able to enter the pitch during a short corner/corner retake. For injury or suspension. But if not, good to know.
  • HV_is_great
    HV_is_great

    @Grizzly said:

    @hockeyfan said:
    Did anyone give a reasoning on why Scanlan was allowed back onto the pitch during a short corner? Clearly cost southern the game. Questions must be asked of the tech bench.

    It's not complex.

    He was carded. Must go off for two minutes. After the two minutes expires he is allowed back on. It's not a substitute scenario.

    Pretty sure this is wrong big boy

  • Grizzly
    Grizzly

    @HV_is_great said:

    @Grizzly said:

    @hockeyfan said:
    Did anyone give a reasoning on why Scanlan was allowed back onto the pitch during a short corner? Clearly cost southern the game. Questions must be asked of the tech bench.

    It's not complex.

    He was carded. Must go off for two minutes. After the two minutes expires he is allowed back on. It's not a substitute scenario.

    Pretty sure this is wrong big boy

    Happy to be shown otherwise. That was just my understanding of the rules. Simple minds have a tendency to simplify the complex ;)

  • Jemma
    Jemma

    @Grizzly said:

    @HV_is_great said:

    @Grizzly said:

    @hockeyfan said:
    Did anyone give a reasoning on why Scanlan was allowed back onto the pitch during a short corner? Clearly cost southern the game. Questions must be asked of the tech bench.

    It's not complex.

    He was carded. Must go off for two minutes. After the two minutes expires he is allowed back on. It's not a substitute scenario.

    Pretty sure this is wrong big boy

    Happy to be shown otherwise. That was just my understanding of the rules. Simple minds have a tendency to simplify the complex ;)

    It is interesting, I have seen many matches where an umpire wont let a card player back on in those circumstances, but looking carefully through the rules, can't see where in the rules it says a player cannot come back on from a card.

    Substituted absolutely not, and that is why the wording is the way it is, because if a goalie comes back on he can be substituted for the kicking back.

  • GateCrasher
    GateCrasher

    @Jemma said:

    @Grizzly said:

    @HV_is_great said:

    @Grizzly said:

    @hockeyfan said:
    Did anyone give a reasoning on why Scanlan was allowed back onto the pitch during a short corner? Clearly cost southern the game. Questions must be asked of the tech bench.

    It's not complex.

    He was carded. Must go off for two minutes. After the two minutes expires he is allowed back on. It's not a substitute scenario.

    Pretty sure this is wrong big boy

    Happy to be shown otherwise. That was just my understanding of the rules. Simple minds have a tendency to simplify the complex ;)

    It is interesting, I have seen many matches where an umpire wont let a card player back on in those circumstances, but looking carefully through the rules, can't see where in the rules it says a player cannot come back on from a card.

    Substituted absolutely not, and that is why the wording is the way it is, because if a goalie comes back on he can be substituted for the kicking back.

    Does this mean that gun drag flicker is carded, corner awarded with 45 seconds left on the card, team can pfaff around until time is served and flicker can then come onto the ground to take the corner?

  • hvmember
    hvmember

    FIH tournament regulations from 2014 states:

    The offending player is permitted to resume play when the Technical Official on duty indicates that the period of suspension has been completed unless this occurs during the taking of a penalty corner in which case the player cannot return until the penalty corner has been completed or another penalty corner is awarded.

    I believe that he was on for the second corner and not the first, so if he came back on in 'the middle' of the two then it looks to be fair game.

  • hockeyfan
    hockeyfan
    It's obviously a contentious issue. Iv never seen a carded player allowed back on in international hockey. But reading the rules it doesn't state clearly whether or not. But the way I take the rules is no one is allowed on during the corner process other than an injured keeper or carded keeper.

    Other than that this weekends games will be great viewing. Powerhouse play an exciting brand of hockey and look to be in great form. They'll be a great test for Camberwell. And on the other side I'm confrident Doncaster will get through. But with Altona's short corners it may be kept interesting.
    Stk 3-2 Camberwell
    Doncaster 3-1 Altona
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